Nope, Still Against Feminism.
After my last post, “Why Is This Woman Against Feminism?”, I got an email from Renee, who writes a blog called “Womanist Musings”. She wanted me to know that she’d written a reply called Why Feminism Is A Necessity, and was giving me a heads-up, which I thought was pretty decent of her. I followed her link, and read what she wrote, and discovered that she was laboring under some serious misconceptions. Some of which I’ve labored under myself.
So, in the spirit of “paying it forward”, I thought I’d try, in a nice way, to explain a few things to here. This is my effort:
Renee,
So, what do I have against feminism, anyway? Well, nothing, per se. I mean, if you look at feminism as a movement seeking to ensure equal opportunities and rewards for everyone regardless of gender, what could possibly be wrong with that? And to be fair, I think a lot of the early feminists – female and male – had just such a concept in mind. I’m not so sure about the movement leadership at the time, but it doesn’t really matter what their motives were at this point, does it? The point is moot. What’s done is done.
Now we as
I’m willing to concede that we wouldn’t have those freedoms today had there never been a feminist movement. I think a strong case could be made against that position, but for the sake of argument, I’ll concede it. So the movement accomplished what it purportedly set out to do. How marvelous! Crack open the bubbly, let’s celebrate!
I mentioned equal access regardless of gender to education and employment, as well as to the voting booth. I mentioned that a lot of the early feminists probably had those goals in mind from the start. I even conceded “that we wouldn’t have those freedoms today had there never been a feminist movement.” That’s slightly more than the vote.
I’m actually glad you wrote your piece; it is really useful in proving my point. Feminism has lied to you, my dear. Or at the most, you’ve been fed half-truths. And the fact that you, yourself, brought all of these fallacies up makes it impossible for you to say, “Well, that’s not REAL feminism”, because to you, and to a lot of your sisters, clearly, it IS real feminism.
I’ve been where you are. Well, maybe not quite where you are, but let’s just say I bought in to a large part of the propaganda. I believed, and I was indignant, as you are.
Then one day, I followed my curiosity, as I am wont to do, and wound up on a board full of men (and one or two women) who were fed up with what they saw around them, and were not afraid to say so. In fact, one of the first things I read there was about how Western women in general, and American women in particular, aren’t worth the time it would take to tell them to fuck off.
I thought, “Wow. These guys sure are bitter. It sounds like they’ve been involved with some really vile women. Well, we’re not all like that, and I’m going to prove it to them.” Or something along those lines.
And so, as I am also wont to do, I jumped right in and introduced myself. If I recall correctly, I said something like, “Hi. I’m Kelly, and yes, I’m an American woman. I won’t apologize for being a woman, but I’m looking forward to talking with you.” I really don’t remember exactly. I won’t go into the details of what followed, but you can safely assume there was hostility involved. 
I stuck it out, though. I didn’t get (too) mad, and I didn’t give up (you guessed it – I’m pretty much incapable of turning down a challenge like that)! I asked questions, I listened, because I was genuinely curious about their point of view. And that brings me to the point I’m trying to make here.
They didn’t say, “The world is the way we say it is, because we’re men, and you will accept what we have to say without question, or you will get the hell out of our room.” Far from it. Oh, they weren’t polite. They didn’t cut me any slack. They were very wary.
But they didn’t write me off just because I’m a woman.
They said, “Act respectful, and you will be treated with respect. Don’t believe anything we say. Do the research for yourself. Go to the sources we give you. Go to your own sources. Look at the historical facts. See what can and cannot be proved. Don’t take anything at face value.”
So I did. I followed their advice. It was a profound and difficult experience. Discovering you’ve been manipulated from the get-go is humiliating, disheartening, and disorienting. But seeing the manipulation for what it is is, well, to use a feminist term, empowering.
I debated how to approach this post. I was going to pick your arguments apart, one by one. I even made a list and started copying source url’s. Then my natural sarcasm started kicking in, and I realized I was going in a direction that was counterproductive.
So I’m thinking I may just list the fallacies I saw in your post, say why they’re fallacies, give you a few sources, and challenge you to open your mind a little and do the work. Trust me, I know it ain’t easy. I know you may totally blow me off. That’s fine. It’s not my purpose to force you to change. That’s beyond my power. All I can do is show you the way. You’ll have to decide if you’re secure enough in your beliefs to see how they stand up to the cold light of day.
1. Women still make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes, and the disparity is even larger for women of color. Not true, when you compare apples to apples. Here’s a wiki article – wiki being known for consistently deleting articles about Misandry and men’s rights.
2. The vast majority of women that are single mothers live in poverty, Actually, according to this link, 27.7% of custodial single mothers live in poverty, although in researching it, I did find statistics up to around 35%. However, given that women initiate 2/3 of divorce, and that women are most likely to gain custody, it kind of looks like the situation is mostly in the control of those same mothers.
18. man, who even though he is five years older than you is becoming distinguished while you look dried up, and used. There are evolutionary reasons for older men being attractive to us – they represent someone more established and able to support us. As for older women looking dried up and used, I don’t think I agree with you. Yes, we lose our firmness and suppleness, but if we go into it gracefully, I think older women can be very beautiful. You can’t expect to always look fertile. Blame the primitive brain, not sexism.
19. You see, you took so much time out of the workforce to raise children, and take care of your elderly parents that it has effected your retirement benefits. Should you have the misfortune to outlive your spouse, and loose his share of benefits you will become a regular at food banks, and soup kitchens. Even with the discounts you will get for being a senior, economically life will be very hard for you. If you choose to stay home and raise the kids, that’s the choice you make. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been putting money into retirement since I was 30 years old. You have to take care of these things yourself, instead of expecting someone else to do it.
20. “Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual harassment at least once. Specifically, 67 percent of girls reported receiving unwanted romantic attention, 62 percent were exposed to demeaning gender-related comments, 58 percent were teased because of their appearance, 52 percent received unwanted physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with harm by a male. 52 percent of girls also reported receiving discouraging gender-based comments on the math, science and computer abilities, usually from male peers, and 76 percent of girls reported sexist comments on their athletic abilities, again predominantly from male peers.” Yes, but what is unwanted sexual attention? “Hey baby, give me your ass”, or “You look really sexy in that short dress”? Who isn’t teased because of their appearance? I’ve worn glasses since the 3rd grade, had acne since 6th grade. Trust me. I got teased. What about the boy who isn’t buff and wealthy? Think he’s not getting teased? Think again. That’s only your first few statistics. Question the rest of them.
21. Feminist theory is fluid, and constantly changing to meet the diverse needs of women Ah, here’s where you throw in the “all the bad stuff isn’t REAL feminism”. The convenient denial.
22. Simply stating the facts of the lived experience of women does not constitute the demonization of men. Why should women deny the horrors of their daily lives so that men can have a feel good experience? I never said stating the facts of our lived experience constitutes the demonization of men. I said blaming men for everything bad that has ever happened does. Is your daily life really a horror? Really?
23. men have been slaughtering women since the beginning of time. I couldn’t find a source that said this. Do you have one?
24. Now with the aid of technology we are killed before we can even take our first breath. It is called femicide The only information I found about femicide deals with the killing of female fetuses in
I challenge you, Renee, and everyone who agrees with you, to question your beliefs. If you find that you’re able to support them, so much the better - it puts you in a stronger position. If you find that they’re flawed, that’s good, too. Make up your own mind. Don’t let anyone else tell you what to think. Including me.
I just found this site through Wendy Mcelroy and I have to say, I am impressed. I’ve bounced aropund a few sites since my brutal awakening to what feminism hath wrought (2006)and this one is great.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:44 pmI’d like top add my own analysis of this persons comments, but you did just fine yourself. She repeats standard feminist boilerplate, with the same unhinged hysteria (the “horrors of our daily lives”), mixes it with a dose of zeitgeist and calls it facts.
I will reiterate (as you pointed out) that few of her statements do not apply to men as well. It just seems that is only a tragedy when it happens to women - when those things happen to men they are regrettable, but just the way it is.
What nonsense.
Great post as usual Kelly. Kudos on the research. Here’s a link that you can use for #20 if this ever comes up again:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-mac_donald24feb24,0,7810608,full.story
to summarize, that article says that the statistics used to justify claims about sexual assault are greatly exaggerated.
Renee has a lot of misdirected anger, doesn’t she? And frankly, many of her claims are just laughable. I especially liked #23. You’re right Renee, men have been slaughtering women since time immemorial …and then what? Yeah. We all go extinct. That’s prima facie evidence that men are *not* slaughtering women (any more than we humans slaughter each other). Take my advice Renee and drop that claim. It makes you look foolish.
About the first part of this blog post Kelly, I’ve read your posts on the forum and I’m frequently embarrassed by many of the men who respond. They’re just like Renee - lots of misdirected anger. It’s a real sign of character that you’ve stuck with it as long as you have.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:54 pmYou’ve pinpointed the problem with feminism - it’s half truths, nothing more.
June 8th, 2008 at 2:59 pmWell, you know what that German guy with the funny mustache had to say about endlessly repeated lies
June 8th, 2008 at 5:38 pmRenee, hmm well when oil IS AT US$200 a barrel lets see how strong they are.I will not help woman like her even if we have a repeat of the 1930’s great depression I will not help them, the next 10 years will really show up feminists for what they are, due to the fact that many woman will not be able to find a man, because men have had enough.
June 8th, 2008 at 9:58 pmI liked number 20 - first where did she get her statistacs and were those same questions ever posed to guys, and what were the results?
>>Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual harassment at least once.
First, how are we defining sexual harasment? Cause if you use the standdard feminist definition then I’ve been sexualy harrased by my grandma
>>Specifically, 67 percent of girls reported receiving unwanted romantic attention,
Ever see Fatal Attraction? Again who many guys were asked the questions that this statistic is derived from?
>>62 percent were exposed to demeaning gender-related comments,
Ever hear women talk about exboyfriends?
>>58 percent were teased because of their appearance,
And guys arent?
>>52 percent received unwanted physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with harm by a male.
Damn near every guy in my high school was slapped punched or kicked by their girldfriends - And this was in a community that was 90% mormon
>>52 percent of girls also reported receiving discouraging gender-based comments on the math, science and computer abilities, usually from male peers, and 76 percent of girls reported sexist comments on their athletic abilities, again predominantly from male peers.
Ever hear how men bash eachother?
This last one encapulates feminisim at its core -
If you treat a woman better than a man your harassing her by being patronising,
If you treat a woman the way you treat a man your harassing her by(in her mind) being overly harsh,
If you refuse to play the zero sum lose lose mind game then your a mysoginist and harassing her by mearly existing in the same space/time
I’d like to see the questionaire that produced those idiodic figures
June 8th, 2008 at 11:12 pmOne other thing.
Did anyone notice that the sexual harassment, unwanted romantic advances and unwanted physical contact made no specific mention that such actions were preformed “predominatly by male peers” as other stats did?
In fact only the last two stats specifically mention males as the primary sorce of such behavior - why do you suppose that is?
June 8th, 2008 at 11:25 pmYou can look at that another way too. If these acts are mainly done by males then that means that females are doing it to their own as well.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:48 amLooks like you snagged another true believer Kelly.
There’s nothing wrong with being part of a fringe philosophy. The problem is that feminism and cultural marxism are erasing all forms of conservative/traditional discourse, and have invaded the academy and the government.
These are not benign quacks, they are seditionists.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:41 amlujlp is right, this definition of sexual harassment is far too broad to show anything meaningful. “Unwanted romantic attention” sounds like an unreciprocated crush; by this definition I have been both a perpetrator and a victim of sexual harrasment. It’s the same thing for “demeaning gender-related comments;” I’ve called my friends “dicks” and been called the same more times than I can count. The 90% statistic is not horrific at all; these things are part of a normal life.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:27 pmComing in late, but I absolutely agree. “Unwanted sexual advance” = You ask someone out, and they say “No.” They can then claim you sexually harassed them, by saying the magic words - “It made me feel uncomfortable.” This is not rhetoric, this is experience and facts talking. As Amy Alkon quipped, “Its sexual harassment if he’s broke, ugly and works in the mailroom.” Feminists usually respond to this one of two three ways - 1. Denial that that is the case, 2.justication is offered in that “it DID make her feel uncomfortable” (and what greater evil could exist, I ask you) or finally, 3. the old stand by - “Women were oppressed for years and years and if now some men are then blah, blah, blah.
June 10th, 2008 at 3:39 amNoone disputes that “quid pro quo” harassment is wrong, but as in so many other issues, it serves as the strawman for an ever broadening definition of the term “sexual harassment.” This is also seen in rape - a person who has seen a woman who has been raped, or who has been raped themselves, is unlikely be overly sympathetic to the trivializing of the crime that has occurred in the name of “justice,” and it doesn’t take long to see that “justice” in this context means “anything advancing our social and political agenda.”
WAR Kelly!!!
I just happened upon this post from digg.com, and I think that every college freshman should read either this post or (if they have time) the book “who stole feminism”.
Eye-opening to say the least.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:14 amWell said, again.
June 10th, 2008 at 5:39 amI smile every time I read one of your posts, Kelly. Thank you for taking the time to respond to these boneheads. I especially like your calm encouragement to Renee to not take your word for anything but, instead, to open and eyes and research her information for herself. I would bet that she will completely ignore you but other, more open minded people out there, will see this exchange and take your advice.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:27 am“Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing sexual harassment at least once. Specifically, 67 percent of girls reported receiving unwanted romantic attention, 62 percent were exposed to demeaning gender-related comments, 58 percent were teased because of their appearance, 52 percent received unwanted physical contact and 25 percent were bullied or threatened with harm by a male.”
Such statistics are available to be used because of the great concern society has for the well being of women and girls.
However, if the same sort of questionnaire were to be given to boys, I doubt the percentage of respondents to each point would be much different. Perhaps fewer boys will report “unwanted” romantic attention – simply because girls don’t make the same sort of effort to pursue boys as the boys do in pursuing the girls. It seems that any woman who’d ever been approached by a guy she wasn’t interested in has now been “sexually harassed”?
And, what guy hasn’t been demeaned in a gender related way at some point in his life? What guy hasn’t been teased because of his appearance? And, how many guys received an unwarranted blow to his testicles by a girls out to prove she could? And, boys DO get threatened by girls – especially older girls when the boys are younger.
I think the better point to make of these stats is that they aren’t as readily available regarding men and boys because society doesn’t care to ask about the well-being of men they way it does of women.
June 10th, 2008 at 1:50 pmGreat post kelly. I came over here from a link at hatemalepost.
This is the kind of malignant entitlement crap that all level headed women should stand up and say enough of the bullshit.
As a male I don’t know of a single guy who wasn’t either teased, harassed or gotten into fights with by someone. There is always a bigger fish it seems, especially for men.
June 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pmWomen of this age group are totally brainwashed. for me the comments on sexuality were astounding. They really believe that they are responsible for sexual enjoyment, that no generation of women before them had an awareness of their anatomy, or had ever had an orgasm. Full of yourself much? From my point of view I don’t see that feminism has done much of anything for sexuality other than cheapen it. Turned it into a sport, and also a minefield. For all the ballyhoo about sexual freedom, I think that in some ways this generation is as oppressed as the Victorians. In the Victorian era you could still look at a woman and it wasn’t a crime. A pat on the back wasn’t harassment, an invitation to lunch wasn’t an expression of patriarchal predatory behaviour, but just an invitation to lunch. You can’t touch anyone, comment on how nice someone looks, can’t crack a joke anymore. Oh yes, they’ve made things so much more equal and are so enlightened. By demonizing men these women have robbed themselves of so much. How can anyone have fulfilling sex when the woman thinks all men are potential rapists and a man is worrying that he’ll be charged with rape the next day? Oh, yeah they’ve done so much for us.
The prepubescent comment is just creepy. What ever makes her think that is in any way mainstream?
As for porn and rape, which came first? Did Neanderthals have porn? A bit exaggerated, but you get my point.It’s like those who blame all crime on video games.
I stink?
Well judging by TV ads, we all stink. There are deoderant products for both men and women, for feet, armpits, breath, our houses and clothes. So the point of advertising is not that just women stink. Try again.
(Douching was debunked in the 70s btw.)
I also found the ’sexualization’ remark interesting, the choice of words. Usually ‘objectification’ is used. I suppose though, if you grow up believing that men and women are born exactly the same and any differences between the sexes is due solely to socialization, then a woman in a bikini is seen as ’sexualized’. Sexuality is innate.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:01 pmA couple of comments.
> Women bodies are constantly sexualized in the
> media.
And? Women’s bodies are, in part, sexual - and women know it and often use it to their pleasure and advantage when they can, entirely voluntarily, just as men do. What your correspondent is really complaining about is men gaining sexual pleasure from contemplating women’s bodies. And that’s just spite.
> because female sexual pleasure just isn’t
> taught in sex education classes.
As Kelly has pointed out, neither is male sexual pleasure. What, you need a teacher to tell you how before you can masturbate?
> women are supposed to all have hairless
> prepubescent bodies at all times, while men
> can go around looking like they belong in
> gorillas in the mist
I’m a man with very little body hair. Women don’t find that attractive. You’ve got too much, I’ve got too little. Life’s not fair - but it’s not just unfair to you.
> Ninety percent of girls reported experiencing
> sexual harassment at least once. Specifically,
> 67 percent of girls reported receiving
> unwanted romantic attention
Unwanted romantic attention? You mean “would you like to go out for coffee?” “No thanks” is sexual harassment? Diddums. Try being the one who does the asking and see how harassed you feel. Seriously. Getting strung along by a woman who isn’t actually interested in you but wants as many free nights out as she can get away with, or facing with the withering disdain of someone who thinks her shit doesn’t stink, causes far more emotional stress than turning down a guy you’re not into. Also, try being a man in a workplace full of women, routinely putting up with the kind of generalised sexist language against men that would get me summarily fired if I used it against women.
> Why should women deny the horrors of their
> daily lives
Maybe women’s daily lives are horrific in Darfur or Iraq or Chechnya. Men’s lives are no better - in fact, men are far more likely to be killed. The idea that women’s daily lives in Canada (where you are) or in any other part of the modern west are horrific is frankly laughable. Modern western women are the most pampered group of people who have ever lived. Modern western men have pretty comfortable lives too, but even so, 90% of workplace deaths are men. Men die building the offices we work in and the roads we drive on.
> men have been slaughtering women since the
> beginning of time.
90 million people died in two world wars in the 20th century, and despite that the world’s population continued to rise. One million people died in the Irish potato famine in the middle of the 19th century, and Ireland’s population still hasn’t recovered. Know why? Because in the two world wars, the dead were overwhelmingly male, and in the Irish famine, women died too. A population that loses most of its men but retains its women can regenerate easily. If it loses a significant number of women, it can’t. This is why, when there’s slaughter going on, it’s men, not women, who are slaughtered. Read any history. In 1995 in Bosnia the UN evacuated women from Srebrenica, and left non-combatant men and boys to be massacred. Today in Iraq, the overwhelming majority of the civilian casualties are male.
Feminism has a very unbalanced view of the world. Hillary Clinton once said that women were always the “primary victims of war” because they lost husbands and fathers and sons, and that’s how feminists think. A bereaved woman is a greater tragedy than a dead man.
Take the blinders off and look at the world fairly. Bad things happen to women, and some of them happen systematically. If you stop there, as feminists usually do, you’ll end up with a very misleading impression. Keep looking, and you’ll find bad things, some systematic, being done to men too - sometimes the same ones, sometimes different ones. Your sex is not uniquely hard done by, and feminists need to get off their high horses and realise that.
June 13th, 2008 at 2:28 pmPatrick Browne,
My brother. That was a great post. I’m going to keep that one on file for future reference. Bravo, sir.
June 14th, 2008 at 2:23 amI wish these trolls would stick around once in awhile to defend their assertions, instead of the drive by sniping. At the same time I acknowledge that with assertions like these, taking a shot and running for cover is certainly the wisest course of action.
Hi Editor,
I have been a feminist for quite a few years and I must admit that at some point or another i realized that quite a few thing I had learned are not “true”. Truth is absolute but opion is subjective.
What gets on my nerves is that women are in many ways depicted as victims and people tend to talk about us in general terms. However, I believe that instead of complaining and mourning more women should acknowledge the piviledges they have and just do what they like. Many doors have been kicked in, but women often believe that they need somebody who leads them through it.
I also belive that the job pay should be negotiated at an indivdual basis– becase in gfact if your husbands works more hours he should earn more money generally( we all know that people work in proportion more than they actually earn)
We are not Saudi Arabia, we are in Europe of in the US and women tend to subconsciously say no to themselves but the blame men or society in general fo things that are up to them.
And I as well agree in the porn thing. Men are believed to always enjoy it, but we should ask: who are these men and could it be that they are doing drugs to keep their erections.
That women rather do ot go to war has to do with the fatc that if the fathers die — the sons should go to fight the war. Hitler equated the soldiers´ jobs at the front to the women´s duty to give birth to a child. Do not get me wrong please . I hate war and I am not a Nazi. I just wanted to cast light on the origins of gender and war in Germany.
Feminists take fo garnted that everything is just given and easy for men. However, they or we should also shed light on the fact that amongst guys ther are winners and losers as well–and that I as a studen(female) will ave more opprtunities than a boy who immigrated to Germany and di not have the same opportunities
to educate himself.
Cheers, bell
June 14th, 2008 at 9:01 amI hope there are more like you, bell.
June 14th, 2008 at 1:23 pmThese are all really great points by everyone. Really great.
P.S. bell, you don’t sound like a feminist. Maybe you’re what the originals had in mind?
June 14th, 2008 at 1:32 pmHello everyone, hated feminist here…I read over your post Kelly and I have written a response.
June 14th, 2008 at 6:53 pmhttp://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/06/colluding-ass-women-feminism-benefits.html
While I have not found this exchange particularly enlightening, it certainly has not been boring. At any rate I hope that I have answered the questions that you posed. We certainly attack this issue from different point of views but I respect your right not only to have your own opinion, but to voice it. I support the agency of all women even when it is contrary to the needs of women. Take care, much respect, Renee @ womanist-musings.com/
“Had Kelly been a man, I probably would have let this go, but colluding ass women get on my nerves.”
That’s as far as I could get. Anyone else with more fortitude?
June 14th, 2008 at 8:16 pm“Take care, much respect”
So snotty condescension has now become respect? Feminists! Is there any word safe from their womanist (?) reconstruction?:)
June 14th, 2008 at 8:17 pmI got to the bit where she responded to Kelly saying that “rape culture” was a term made up by feminists by pretending she’d said that rape was made up and therefore didn’t exist. I would dearly love to meet a feminist, just one, who could argue honestly.
The whole “colluding” business gives her away, though. She’s at war, men are the enemy. There’s no prospect of dialogue there. She just wants to win.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:26 pmInstallment one. I see Renee has “responded” to the original posting. I’ll have a look at that too when I belive I can stamach it. Notably she didn’t do it here. No point trying to post a contrary response on Renee’s blog as it would be highly unlikely to see the light of day.
Renee said…
Ah yes…”the world is unfair”. Even men suffer from some of this unfairness. However let’s put this aside as we always do because it’s infinitely worse for women…
90%. An “astounding figure”? What study Renee? How was “sexual harassment” defined. Was it defined in such a way that only a female could respond in the positive? Did the survey ask the same, or indeed any, questions of boys? Wouldn’t it be interesting to contrast that with the international dating violence survey by Murray Strauss in 2006 which shows women to be significantly more violent than men in dating situations.
Renee said…
True. There is also far more to being worthy of respect than owning the right set of genitalia.
Renee said…
Women also work seven to eight fewer hours per week than men. When adjusted to hourly rates of pay the “gap” is 1.3% in my country. Given that men are 95% of workplace death and injury 1.3% is a small price to pay to earn your livelihood safely. Meanwhile women are the source of eighty percent of non-essential expenditure and 85% of retail floorspace is devoted to them.
So, Renee, what matters most - who has to work their backside off to earn it or who gets to spend it?
Renee said…
What has poverty got to do with abortion?
Renee the abortion battle was won in the early seventies. Didn’t you get the memo? The real battle now is to win equivalent rights for men so we may achieve some equality where self determination regarding parenthood is concerned. You do remember that quaint old concept of equality don’t you Renee?
Renee said…
Note the careful avoidance of any domestic activity typically undertaken by men in virtually every survey of this type. Every piece of work I’ve seen relating to this issue avoids entirely all those home based activities typically undertaken by men.
Renee said…
“Double”! Even when typically male tasks are totally ignored the largest gap I’ve seen in total working time is about an hour.
Renee said…
And mens’ bodies are constantly brutalised for laughs. Only a few days ago I saw an ad in which a man was kicked in the genitals(we’ve had a rash of these recently) and laughed at by a group of assorted individuals whilst writhing in agony. This was bracketed between two other ads exhorting us to say “no” to violence against women which, of course, only men are responsible for and never victims of. Images of attractive women are now grounds for sexual harassment charges but portrayals of brutality against men are grounds for comedy.
Renee said…
So images of half naked women are used to sell products to women? Could I suggest you take that up with your sisters. Also you may want to ask advertising companies if they think all women are lesbians. Personally any use of sex in an advertisement convinces me immediately that the product is no good. I can’t believe women are such morons as to not be able to recognise this also.
I challenge YOU to watch fifteen minutes of television without seeing denigration or humiliation or brutalisation of men. All for fun of course.
Meanwhile in my country a woman committing statutory rape of a boy is treated as light entertainment in womens magazines. Those magazines have actually paid the travel and living expenses for a US woman who travelled to Australia to root a fifteen year old. Their female audiences lap it up. Even young boys aren’t safe from the female applause that shamelessly greets the female abuse of males. Remember Lorena Bobbit getting standing ovations on Oprah? Sometimes, Renee, your gender absolutely disgusts me.
Renee said…
If the participants in violent pornography are non consenting it is illegal by virtue of the non-consent. I’m afraid Renee is merging issues again. I doubt she has the slightest idea of what pornography is actually out there. Of course in Renee’s mind any porn is violence against women. Interestingly it is women who make all the money in the porn industry.
Get over it Renee. Humans have made porn since they first started scratching rocks. If your concern is violence I would suggest you turn your attention to the mainstream media which shows infinitely more violence than the porn industry.
Little reminder Renee…there are far more male rape victims than female. Furthermore women constitute at least a third of child sex abusers. Your “rape culture” is a myth and a fabrication both in degree and dynamic. Linking porn to rape has no basis. Those countries with historically liberal traditions toward porn have LOWER rates of rape.
Renee said…
I thought “bitch” was a positive and implied strength in a woman.
I wonder if Renee ever paused to wonder why the black culture has produced this highly condensed form of mysoginy? Is it possible that black men are so alienated that this is the natural consequence. She would undoubtably toe the feminist line in assuming that mysoginy is innate in men. Of course when confronted by a troubled woman Renee would leave no stone unturned seeking a male cause to these woes. Personally I believe mysoginists are created. Only one of us can be right. You be the judge. Remember that unlike misandry misogyny never did have a university syllabus.
Renee said…
The most sexist thing I heard during that campaign was the expectation of Clinton and her supporters that women should vote for her because of her gender.
But, of course, any excuse will do. Can’t blame Hillary, or any woman for that matter, for failure. It must be the fault of a man and if you can’t find a handy male scapegoat just blame all of them.
Clinton ran a poor and inadequate campaign. She understimated her opponent and was arrogant enough at the beginning to think she was an automatic winner. She has nobody to blame but herself.
Renee the more you and feminists generally choose to blame sexism for Clinton’s failure the harder you make it for future female candidates. It is a demonstration of weakness that will not be forgotten by voters. The hoi poloi WANTS leaders who are willing to take responsibility. It is highly likely now that the first female US president will not be a Democrat or feminist and that feminists will be tearing their hair out in confusion and outrage when it does happen.
Renee said…
Yep. I know where your clitoris is Renee. I know this because I’m well read AND because I’ve watched pornography AND because I’ve devoted attention to quite a few of them during my lifetime. I would go so far as to suggest I know more about female sexual anatomy than Renee. Unless Renee is a lesbian or gynocologist I can guarantee I’ve dealt closely with far more female genitalia than she. Does Renee know where her G spot is and understand the neural processes that connect it to the clitoris? Does she know how to take advantage of these physiological factors? Probably not. Like most women who are sexually unsatisfied it must be her partner’s fault.
Why should sexual pleasure be the subject of sex education classes? Could I therefore suggest inclusion of information about paternity fraud and false allegations? Any chance of teaching boys that they have a right to consent? Oh, that’s right, male consent doesn’t matter. Some parts of the world are already removing that right from men at the behest of feminists. Indeed Mexico will now imprison men who refuse their partners demands for sex. It’s a fine line a man must tread. Too much attention is abuse. Too little attantion is abuse. Either can land him in a jail cell. And of course he must know how to make her bits work even if she doesn’t. Thankyou for the warning Renee. I expect “denial of orgasm” will be the next crime men are expected to answer for.
Renee said…
Then let it grow Renee. Let it grow and let it flow. Nobody is holding you down and doing it to you. You choose to do it.
In my day to day life vitually the only male hair I see is above the shoulders. Contrarily I see acres of exposed female flesh on a daily basis whether I want to or not. Quite a bit of it is grotesque.
Renee said…
Seriously Renee, if you are, or were, a stone above your ideal weight I couldn’t care less apart from possible health implications. Virtually all men are the same. All of this stuff is a manifestation of competition among women rather than compulsion by men. For heavens sake US women spend something like twenty billion annually on cosmetics alone. You could feed a fair portion of the African continent on that.
Renee said…
The “misfortune to outlive your spouse”? Wow. Thus speaks the voice of entitlement and privilege. Not unlike the World Health Organisation’ rapturous release of data a couple of years ago, loudly accompanied by popping champagne corks, that women now outlive men in every country. Cause for celebration? Consider what you say Renee. Also consider the potential banality of evil.
Meanwhile 95% of the homeless are men. Why do I suspect that if that were true for women I’d be hearing your screams of outrage from the other side of the planet?
Renee said…
Presumably Renee is asserting that the majority of men AND boys are sexual abusers. Not unlike Australia’s feminist professor Freda Briggs who wants all teenage boys treated as though they are paedophiles.
Renee, remember “all men are rapists”? When I first heard that claim I should have been a virgin apart from having been raped by a woman at age eight. That rape was legal at the time by the way.
So, yes Renee, it’s only one unidentified study. I ask again. Did this study talk to any males at all? How do we know that boys aren’t experiencing these things in greater numbers?
Renee said…
“Stating” or overstating? Claiming somebody else’s suffering to be your own? Ignoring any suffering that men may have endured? Go to Gendercide and learn something about mens’ lived experience.
Renee said…
Oh lets do. Let’s compare “horror stories”. You tell me your last “daily horror story” from years ago and I’ll tell you mine.
“Daily”? Seriously Renee, if you must engage in hyperbole at least have the good sense to make it remotely realistic.
Renee said…
Why would I listen to people who celebrate murderers, rapists and sexual mutilators while simultaneously holding me responsible for things I have never done or even condoned?
Renee said…
These reasons being? Again Renee may find Gendercide enlightening.
Renee said…
Actually men have been slaughtering men since the beginning of time. Through the species history twice as many women as men have managed to reproduce. Renee, like a good little feminist, only sees one gender’s pain. Death or pain only matters if it happens to women.
Home truth Renee…the real indicator of oppression is death.
Renee said…
Live in denial if rose colored glasses allows you to negotiate this world a little easier but please sell crazy somewhere else, the kool aid is not as tempting as you think.
I understand that two thirds of aborted western foetuses are male. Coincidentally the majority of murdered western children are killed by women and two thirds of those victims are also male. What term could we apply to our version of the third world’s or other culture’s “femicide”? ‘Homo’cide? Oh, why not just call it “inert tissue” or even “parasite” that has a bit of a tendency to be male. In a similar vein the west calls the genital mutilation of boys “circumcision” while calling the circumcision of girls in other cultures “genital mutilation”.
Renee I recognise a useful idiot when I see one. Take a bow.
June 14th, 2008 at 11:59 pmThe stuff about the “MALE GAZE” (her capitalisation), and how sex education classes are really all about male pleasure, even though they’re actually all about babies and STDs, because they talk about intercourse, gets me. Every man I know takes his responsibility to please women sexually very seriously, and knows that his ability as a lover is judged entirely on that basis. A man who does not bring his partner to orgasm feels he has failed as a lover. If it weren’t so, women would not need to fake orgasm.
Meanwhile, we all know about the women who just lie there and make their partners “do all the work”. I’ve also met more women than men who publicly refuse to go down on their partners because they think it’s “disgusting”. Male orgasm is assumed to take care of itself - i.e., it’s taken for granted. Or, by women like Renee, resented. Like I said, spite.
June 15th, 2008 at 12:02 am“Like I said, spite.”
It seems that so much of the feminist dogma is derived from this unlovely source. For examplem the campus (forget which) where wymyn posted the names of totally innocent males as ‘potential rapists’. There’s such a stench of mean spirited spitefulness about so much of what they say and do. You’re right: like winecat before her, Renee just wants to WIN, truth and Reason be damned!
June 15th, 2008 at 4:30 amI.Love.This.Blog.
I was recently accused by a self professed *feminist* of sexualizing both women and men with my work.
You betcha, baby. And I cackle all the way to the bank. I’m a romance author. I’m also a joyful SAHM who jumps her husband’s bones every chance she gets. And DH is the better/more diligent housekeeper of the two of us.
What I am not is a self professed *feminist*.
I feel my intelligence is insulted by *feminists* who hijack the plights of persons who have been sexually victimized/objectified (such as my disabled son, who had no words to say no with) and make their plights a part of their rhetorical calling card.
That’s what cured, me, actually, of calling myself a feminist.
Want to know what sexual objectification is?
It’s not paid adult models/actors choosing to take their clothes off in exchange for fair pay.
The term *sexual objectification* belongs to those persons who had no choice in being used for nothing other than another persons sexual gratification.
And to dilute the term in the way that feminists do trivializes the plights of those who have suffered true objectification.
Just my two cents. For whatever it’s worth.
Great blog. Thanks for letting me rant.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:31 amI’ll wait for KellyMac to post the response on her blog. Methinks our self described “hated feminist” is trolling for hits on her own.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:04 amActually, I urge Kelly to not waste her time on this excresence. She’s not here for an honest debate, she’s here to feed her obviously massive ego.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:11 amAfter reading what she wrote (I actually got through the whole thing), I have to say I agree with Flint’s Gunner. She didn’t even address half my arguments but danced all the way around them. Of the ones she did address, she either parroted more from The Feminist Bible, or she used examples from places in the world where women really are systematically abused to justify her victimhood. Without even considering the fact that men aren’t exactly living like sultans with harems there, either. Wait, I think that’s from The Feminist Bible too.
I have to give her credit, though. I’ve never been accused of supporting, or performing on my own daughter, FGM, breast ironing, and whatever other atrocities she listed. That’s original, although I do have to take points away for using one of the Big Three - Stockholm Syndrome.
You can’t reason with the irrational. She doesn’t need any more traffic boost than I already gave her.
June 15th, 2008 at 6:40 amKelly and Flints Gunner, agreed.
June 15th, 2008 at 8:41 amP.S. Sorry, gwallan. Your post got caught in the spam filter for some reason. It just came through today.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:13 amGwallan, that was magnificent post.
June 15th, 2008 at 10:52 amIMHO
June 15th, 2008 at 10:52 amGwallan’s posts are always brilliant. I’m thinking of starting a fan club:)
June 15th, 2008 at 2:36 pmI don’t think she’s stupid, although I wouldn’t necessarily extend that to some of the commenters. But she does have the typical feminist’s blinkers on - so long as any woman suffers, no consideration can be given to anyone else’s suffering. I sometimes get the impression with feminists that, if all men were slaves and all women our masters, one slave giving his master a dirty look would be enough to prove the existence of the “patriarchy”. If I can get one feminist to consider the possibility of confirmation bias, I’ll consider that some kind of progress.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:47 amOnce you can get them to recognize confirmation bias they wind up like KellyMac. Good luck!
June 16th, 2008 at 11:18 amThere you go, Crella. But you were only saying what I was thinking
June 17th, 2008 at 6:03 am“I respect your right not only to have your own opinion, but to voice it. I support the agency of all women…” [Renee]
This is good. Political correctness is all about silencing dissident voices. There is hope for Renee.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:34 amCan’t agree with ya there, Tom. “…even when it is contrary to the needs (note that - womens wants = womens needs) of women.” This was just one more way of taking a swipe at KellyMac and other “colluding ass women.” She’d have them executed if she could.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:25 amI like how it’s only because I have a vagina that she supports me. That’s the kind of mentality that votes for Hilary just because she’s a woman. Whether or not she’s a good choice isn’t even a consideration.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:58 amCheck it out, ya’ll - she’s over at Amy Alkon’s Advice Goddess Blog talking the same smack she’s talking over here. I posted a warning - I think she’s going to several sites and stirring up trouble, to lead them “back home” and attract attention for her site. I’ll be watching for her on a couple of other sites I go to.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:47 pmYes, but is she doing so in her especial brand of Pedantic Ghettoese?
June 17th, 2008 at 2:33 pmThanks Kelly.
Wolfman, I was just going to post the link to Amy’s blog–
http://tinyurl.com/6e5q9g
Too funny.’I have recently been in conversation with a colluder’. I’d be willing to bet that you’re right, Wolfman, because she never links back to the blog in question, only back to her own site.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:40 pmCrella, I was just over there and she has a post that says “just stopped in to inform everyone that I have posted a response with a link to - you guessed it - her site.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:23 amIs it the same sorry-ass “response” that was there before? The one that didn’t actually address any of my points?
June 18th, 2008 at 5:59 amI saw that! You guessed what she was up to!
June 18th, 2008 at 6:46 amKellyMac,
No substantive difference I’m sure. I didn’t bother to go and read it. If she wants to come onto a site and pick a fight, I’ll engage her there, not on her site where my patronage will benefit her.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:43 amYeah! Run and hide thee, Nag!
June 18th, 2008 at 4:48 pmhis is the funniest thing I’ve ever read. Real humor lies in the exposure of Truth, of course. Enjoy!
———————————————
Knock knock…
Oh hi, how’s it going? It’s me! Every girl ever. I’m really looking forward to this date. I’m not nearly as attractive as you remember me being because when we met the bar was dark and you were drunk. Come on in.
Let’s start off with the unavoidable tour of my incredibly typical post-college-girl apartment.
You’ll notice that I went ahead and purchased everything that Ikea and Pier 1 have ever produced. There’s my decorative birdcage over there even though I don’t have a bird, and there’s my gay wicker basket with bamboo poles in it. I don’t know what the hell that’s thing’s all about, but I bought it.
Hey check it out, I have more candles in here than a Roman Catholic Church. Doesn’t it smell like Hazelnut!? If I were to light all of my candles at once you could see my apartment from space! I fucking love candles!
Come on into the living room.
Oh, I see you met my cat there. That’s “Freddy Paws Jr.” Why don’t you pet him and act like you like cats even though you hate cats? There you go. Oh, he took a little swing at your eye there huh? Yeah, he’ll do that. Hey, let’s check out the kitchen.
Hey look at my refrigerator. There are pictures all over it! Look at all these pictures of me and my equally vacuous friends from college! We were so crazy! You can tell we’re really good friends because our faces are all pressed up against each other like that.
And check it out, we’re holding up alcoholic beverages to the camera in every single picture. That’s to prove that we were partying. College was so fun! But of course I don’t talk to any of these girls anymore because now they’re all bitches.
Let’s go back into the hallway!
Hey, before we leave I’m going to go in the bathroom for ten minutes for some mysterious reason. Why don’t you sit awkwardly in my big, stupid, round papizan chair over there while you wait for me. It’s like you’re sitting in a hug! Be right back…
Sorry that took a half an hour, I don’t know what the hell I was doing in there. Let’s go!
Wow! Thanks for opening my car door for me! I’m totally going to blow that meaningless gesture out of proportion and delude myself into thinking that you’re a really good guy because that’s what I want to believe.
Well, here we are at the restaurant. No thanks waiter, I don’t need to see a menu, just bring me some expensive things. Hey I know, while we wait, I’ll tell you all about my unspeakably boring job. I hate my boss. He’s a jerk! I might get another job. Maybe something in pharmaceutical sales.
Now let’s talk about my family. I love my family. I want you to love my family. I want my family to love you. I want you to make love to my family! I want you to go golfing with my semi-retarded brother Travis. That would be so God damned cute!
Wow! I can’t believe I ordered all this food! I have no intention of eating any of it. No thanks waiter, we don’t need a box. Just throw it out.
Hey, I’ve got an idea, let’s go to a bar and have an after dinner drink! It’ll be great, it will be just like how we’re drinking here, only it will be louder and we’ll have to stand up. Come on!
See, isn’t this better? Oh hey, what a coincidence. Look over there! It’s a group of my friends that I knew was going to be here. Let’s go over there so that they can judge you!
Hey, I have to go to the bathroom for a half an hour again for some reason. You can stay here and talk to my unbelievably hideous friend Christine! Christine’s so ugly she scares kids! Talk to her! She has a job and a family that she wants to talk to you about too. Be right back.
I’m back! Sorry I was gone for three hours, there was a line. I want to go home now.
Well here we are at my door again. This was really fun for me and not you. You should pretend like we’re going to do it again sometime! Maybe I’ll see you at Target a few months from now and we can avoid eye contact because you never called me. Here, have this awkward goodnight kiss that’s as empty as my soul. Good night!
June 20th, 2008 at 6:13 amHey, i just stumbled here from Blogher. i actually just got through this post, and it took me awhile, but I just wanted to comment that though I do consider myself a feminist, I do agree with your opinions on some of the fallacies that are associated with the movement.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:39 amLong story short, I am a woman in the military where there are still a lot of inequalities that get to me once in awhile. Some of those inequalities are a lowered physical standard for women, another one is some of the attitudes the Army takes towards serious sexual harassment.
That being said, I wanted to let you know that I’m a new reader of yours! I hope to drop by often as this non-feminism is a breath of fresh air!
Flints gunner,
That was awesome.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:17 pmTim Ma’am, you sound like a moderate (equity) feminist. The radical (gender) feminists are the target of most of the criticisms on the web. But moderates have a mission too: curbing the radicals and speaking against anti-male bias in society, as well as continuing to speak for women around the world who truly need help.
For the record, perfect symmetrical equality between men and women isn’t possible imo.
June 20th, 2008 at 12:41 pmBachelor tom. No you’re right, symmetrical equality is not possible because there are biological differences between men and women. But that doesn’t mean that that we cannot at least have the same standards.
Let me use the military as an example; we fight the same war, the bullets come at us just as much, we carry the same equipment, we drive the same vehicles, we go on the same missions (with exception of a few MOS’s that are considered “combat arms” though the categorization has become pretty useless in this war). What benefit is there to have different fitness standards?
I say true feminism is giving credit to a woman when she is able to make things at the same standard.. .not at some lower standard as though being woman is some special sub sect in need of protection.
June 20th, 2008 at 4:47 pmTim Ma’am,
Welcome to the sight, I look forward to talking in the future.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:50 amI’m in the Army as well, and you are absolutely correct. I am 40 years old. My minimum required PT score is a 19 year old females max. This is just another area in which feminism has put the lie to the idea that it is in favor of equality for everyone, rather than privilege for women. Why didn’t DACOWITS (The Defense Advisory Committee On WEomen In The Armed Services, AKA LACOWITS, now defunct) rise in outrage at the “gender norming” standards that require so much less of females than males? The reason is - it was their idea.
Why are female soldiers, a significant portion of whom would be outraged by any suggestion that they are less capable than their male counteparts, not rising in outrage at this “suggestion” they are not, and demanding the same standards? Heck, they don’t even have to do that - there is, as you know, no penalty for scoring higher than your max on the APFT - why don’t they just go ahead and score higher, turn in scores commensurate with the males and expose the idea that men and women are innately different as a fraud?
If you really want to discuss these things, and it sounds as though you do, I genuinely welcome you to the conversation. I wish to say at the outset that, for my part (and this applies to everyone now or in the future), I will do my my part to see to it that where we may disagree, we can do so without being disagreeable.
The PT scores always irritated me too. I don’t know how it is in the Army (I’m a Navy man) but I always used to laugh at female sailors doing ‘pushups’ from their knees. So not only were the requirments lower, the actual EXERCISES were being adjusted downward. I can’t understand how a person is unable to see the huge double standard, provided they have 3 or more brain cells still functioning. But then I’m a filthy misogynist. Just ask winecat and Renee.
June 21st, 2008 at 7:09 amwell, I can tell you wolfmanmac, that before i succumbed to a knee injury during a marathon, I was doing 102 pushups, 102 situps and running a 14 minute two mile.
So I do agree with you one hundred percent.
June 21st, 2008 at 3:23 pmWhoa! You are in excellent shape, ma’am! Obviously the Army has entirely different standards than the Navy.
June 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pmTim Ma’am: If only all feminists had your attitude, we would be on the way to solving this problem.
Imagine, guys, a feminist who believes in equal opportunities, instead of equal outcomes.
Thank you for a breath of fresh air, and more importantly, thank you for serving.
June 21st, 2008 at 6:06 pmYou would acknowledge then Tim, that you are not the norm for a female soldier?
June 22nd, 2008 at 5:13 amAbsolutely. But i would also acknowledge that women soldiers like me are growing in number.
June 22nd, 2008 at 5:23 amI will accept that.
Are they growing at the same rate so many women soldiers bellies begin growing at deployment time? In spite of the fact that as members of the military, every means of controlling pregnancy (with the possible exception of the morning after pill - I don’t know about that) is at their disposal free of charge?
Are they growing at a rate greater than the female soldiers coming in behind them, still imbued with the privileged attitude that tells them they don’t have to pull their weight because they’re girls, and that this state of affairs makes it …..equal?
The top female 2% is the male median for physical ability. I applaud you for taking it upon yourself to move into that 2%. That 2% is still 2%, and the number of females in the military is still way, way, waaaaaay below the number of females in the population.
Equality is achieved by pulling your weight. Good for you that you are. I condemn the culture that won’t acknowledge your “systers” aren’t.
Just as an aside, Jessica Lynch was not a hero for what happened to her. What happened to her has happened to hundreds of thousands of men throughout history without fanfare and some, in fact, recieved condemnation. Jessica Lynch was a hero for standing up in Congress like a solider, like a woman, and correcting the record.
June 22nd, 2008 at 9:33 amWell, Let me put it this way. I commissioned in a class with 4 other females. 3 of those females averaged about 72 pushups and 86 situps, with a 14:30 two mile run which is not only passing the male APFT standard, but maxing two out of three of those categories. Those three females (two others, plus me) also did the Bataan Death March and did Ranger Challenge.
As for pregnancy, I won’t be seeing my first deployment for about another year, but I can guarantee you that I certainly won’t be pregnant between now, and when i do my duty.
Sure, there are always individual women who will pop out a kid to get out of deployment, but they were few and far between, and I have not known a single woman that has done that, though I have “heard of them”.
June 22nd, 2008 at 10:51 amHow many officers to each enlisted servicemember? I would say 1 officer to every 25 enlisted is generous to your argument. So, we start with a ratio of 25 - 1. Lets assume (again to be generous to your argument) that every one of those officers is female. If every female in your class - okay, every female in every class that ever graduated ocs could eat nails and sh*t cotton candy, we would be looking at numbers that support a contention that women as a class are as capable as men as a class and furthermore, willing to pull their weight in the service.
June 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 pmBut that is not the case. About 15% (high ball figure)of the military is female, and they can’t/don’t perform like that. Furthermore, they don’t seem to be complaining because they aren’t expected to. You continue to use yourself as an example to refute an Army wide phenomena - is it really your contention that because you can do this, and three other females in your class could perform like this, all or even most of the women in the army can and do? That is simply not a credible argument, and you know it. If it were, the P.T. standards would not be different because there would be no need for them to be gender normed.
In your next sentence we see a fallacy of feminism, and I hope you understand I point this out to you because it is a tactic commonly used by feminists - its good to win and argument, it does nothing to advance the quest for truth - “there are always individual women who will pop out a kid to get out of deployment.” Actually, there are a lot of them - the statistics are there if you want to look. But if you have yet to find yourself in a unit with deployment looming, half of the females are pregnant and nondeployable, with everybody holding their breath on the rest, I assure you the time is coming. Just hang around the Army for a minute.
The reason I hold that up as a technique used to disguise the truth is because the argument that “there are always individual men who commit rape” does not serve to vindicate the overwhelming number of men who would never do such a thing. We endure monthly briefings that attempt to curb our apparenly overwhelming desire to loot, pillage and rape our comrades. Therefore, “there are always individual women who will pop out a baby to get out of deployment” is somewhat disingenous.
So, I have already stated that it is medical fact that the top 2% of the female population can perform at the level of the male median (these are averages). Individual women can outperform individual men and vice versa, but these are individual performances and by definition exceptional. The fact remains, the average female is nowhere near as physically capable as the average man, and that fact is admitted in the differing P.t. standards. You may tell me you run 2 miles in 8:00 and can do 5000 1 hand pushups on your fingertips, but “let me put it this way,” as you say - whats your point?
My contention is most women can’t perform like you say you do, of those that can most don’t, and the few that do are hardly a significant portion of the subject population. When are we going to hear an outcry about this from feminists “who only want equality?” Or from women like you?
Correction - “we would be looking at numbers that support a contention that women as a class are as capable as men as a class and furthermore, willing to pull their weight in the service” should read “we still wouldn’t be looking at numbers that…” I regret the error.
June 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 pmOr from women like you?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
Tin Ma’am is an example I despaired of ever seeing. She can’t be the only one.
June 23rd, 2008 at 6:28 amI want to say that I actually enjoyed going over to Renee’s website and seeing so many post from the people hear. Normally sites like that will screen out people like us. I liked seeing her opinions being contested.
But I want to talk about something funnier…
Renee seems disgusted that people have suggested that women stink ‘down there’. I just have to chuckle when I think of her and friends discussing this outrage over a few beers.
Now, I’m not the most sucessfull male when it comes to finding female partners but I’ve had relation with a few and I feel it is almost an obligation to return oral favors. In my small sampling I would say that the variance in odor is similar to people breaths. Some women ‘taste’ quite pleasant but most don’t… and some women just stink. And I mean serious stink here.
It is a difficult situation to handle, much like bad breath, but you really are only doing the person a kindness to suggest she do something to freshen up a bit. After all, like with bad breath, ignoring the problem doesn;t do anyone any good.
I enjoy the irony of her calling douching an ‘evil’ forced upon women by manipulating men and then, in the next breath, she complains that men don’t perform cunnilingus enough. Make you wonder if she is one of the stinkers.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:39 amPlease publicize the - YouTube Videos of Fathers Day Demonstration 2008 at U.S. Capitol through your blog.
The links can be found at my blog -
http://killingmarriageforvotes.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/youtube-videos-fathers-day-demonstration-2008-us-capitol/
Thank you and keep up the good work.
June 24th, 2008 at 4:57 pmSS
—-”Tim Ma’am
20 June 4:47 pm
I say true feminism is giving credit to a woman when she is able to make things at the same standard…”—-
It would probably be more accurate to view what is being termed above as “feminism” (an essentially collectivist idea) as simply “liberty.” The word feminism itself denotes attention toward a given group as opposed to the individual, the latter being the only lens with which one should be concerned.
By insisting upon utilizing the word feminism to describe one’s ideological construct one inevitably creates in the mind of the receiver a collectivist reaction, or at least proliferates the idea of collectivist thinking.
June 24th, 2008 at 7:56 pmWonderful — you’ve very ably destroyed these “self-evident” truths. My particular interest is the so-called “rape culture.” Of course there is no “rape culture.” Sadly, the real epidemic connected with rape is false rape claims — ranging from 9 percent to closer to 50 percent of all rape claims are false. Yet because entire discourse about rape is dominated by the feminst sexual assault lobby, the victims of this crime — falsely accused men — are deemed collateral damage. I’ve devoted a Web site to the men falsely accused of rape: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/
June 25th, 2008 at 6:51 amHaven’t been here is a while, bore, bore, bore.
Thought you might enjoy this
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/pop/368368_tf226.html
June 25th, 2008 at 6:48 pmOh and I’m pretty sur